Thunder cars and Enduros should be STOCK IMHO except for safety equipment period. Once you have out grown those series it is time to go race with the big boys. I had a couple opportunities to get into an Enduro at Delaware over the years but when I looked into what it would take to be competitive I said forget it! The first few times racing it would have been fun but after that........

if life is a game of what ifs then if you would have known that if you did get a car you would not have to spend your hard earned cash on rule upgrades that the car would last until you destroyed it would you have bought in?  .........and oh ya what if the original rules for an enduro were still in place?!?!? 

Thunder cars and Enduros should be STOCK IMHO except for safety equipment period. Once you have out grown those series it is time to go race with the big boys. I had a couple opportunities to get into an Enduro at Delaware over the years but when I looked into what it would take to be competitive I said forget it! The first few times racing it would have been fun but after that........

if life is a game of what ifs then if you would have known that if you did get a car you would not have to spend your hard earned cash on rule upgrades that the car would last until you destroyed it would you have bought in?  .........and oh ya what if the original rules for an enduro were still in place?!?!?   

What I was trying to say was get in to see if you like racing then move up or stay put in a class that is afordable. Maybe I wasn't serious enough. I don't know but I doubt I'm the only one. I'm not trying to diss anyone here as I have ton of respect for guys who put it out there, but since the late 60's the "evolution" of classes has put a lot of guys out of racing.

ernie i couldnt agree more...but dont blame the track owners for it all...always seems to be 2 or 3 guys in the class that want to blow more money..."we have to go faster"...why?....if you want to go faster screw off and move up...the owners should want to make it affordable and competetive...."competetive" doesnt mean you have to spend more...we helped convince flamboro to run minis years ago...most of the cars were worth $500 to $1500 and doing 22 seconds was fast...but then guys starting cheating, and others were getting pro built motors worth $3000 and then someone wanted more money tires and someone this and someone that and now instead of 40 cars we were lucky to get 27 and a few cars are doing 19 seconds and a bunch are doing 21...how is this good for a class?...and i dont mean everyone was cheating, you have a few that are just good...but now with thunders costing so much  non of these mini drivers want too or can afford to move up either....
in 1986 i had a 70 chevelle challenger car i had less than $1000 in it total...this as back when they were completely stock...i paid $150 for the car, sold the 6 cylinder in it for $150...bought a used cage for $50 cut off the roof and welded it in...then bought a 75 pontiac with the $100 left, it had 150,000 miles on it...put that motor in, scrapped the car and bought enough roll bar to put a front and rear hoop in...bought a used race seat, fuel cell and bought new belts for about $300...i cut the front springs down, heated the rears, welded the gears, tilted the wheels, set the toe 1/4 inch out...i did this all in one week...ran that car at flamboro on saturday nights and sunday afternoons at varney...varney, with drum brakes all around, the brakes were so hot i had too pump them 4 or 5 times to get peddle 1/2 way thru the feature...i finished 6 in points there, when they were getting 24 regularly and 17th at flamboro when they were getting 35 and more...that was fun, that was affordable and i wish i could still do that...lol...but they took that completely stock car at flamboro and next was hoosiers, then ford rearends...i had a guys hit me in practice at sunset for the molson special and my axle broke, i was the only one at the whole place running a chev rearend still...lol...then they went to load bolts, then somewhere in there they let camaros and metrics because when challegers first started they were 112" wheel base at flamboro...then the fiberglass bodies and that pretty well killed most of them...and the few that stayed became latemodels...and all the while we were running to win for pretty well the same money the whole time...sauble and varney drivers are lucky they have street stocks because they can still move up from minis or start there and it still isnt an arm and a leg espically when your paying a mortgage or an ex wife...and once they get experience and win the lottery then move to thunders.

ernie i couldnt agree more...but dont blame the track owners for it all...always seems to be 2 or 3 guys in the class that want to blow more money..."we have to go faster"...why?....if you want to go faster screw off and move up...the owners should want to make it affordable and competetive...."competetive" doesnt mean you have to spend more...we helped convince flamboro to run minis years ago...most of the cars were worth $500 to $1500 and doing 22 seconds was fast...but then guys starting cheating, and others were getting pro built motors worth $3000 and then someone wanted more money tires and someone this and someone that and now instead of 40 cars we were lucky to get 27 and a few cars are doing 19 seconds and a bunch are doing 21...how is this good for a class?...and i dont mean everyone was cheating, you have a few that are just good...but now with thunders costing so much  non of these mini drivers want too or can afford to move up either....
in 1986 i had a 70 chevelle challenger car i had less than $1000 in it total...this as back when they were completely stock...i paid $150 for the car, sold the 6 cylinder in it for $150...bought a used cage for $50 cut off the roof and welded it in...then bought a 75 pontiac with the $100 left, it had 150,000 miles on it...put that motor in, scrapped the car and bought enough roll bar to put a front and rear hoop in...bought a used race seat, fuel cell and bought new belts for about $300...i cut the front springs down, heated the rears, welded the gears, tilted the wheels, set the toe 1/4 inch out...i did this all in one week...ran that car at flamboro on saturday nights and sunday afternoons at varney...varney, with drum brakes all around, the brakes were so hot i had too pump them 4 or 5 times to get peddle 1/2 way thru the feature...i finished 6 in points there, when they were getting 24 regularly and 17th at flamboro when they were getting 35 and more...that was fun, that was affordable and i wish i could still do that...lol...but they took that completely stock car at flamboro and next was hoosiers, then ford rearends...i had a guys hit me in practice at sunset for the molson special and my axle broke, i was the only one at the whole place running a chev rearend still...lol...then they went to load bolts, then somewhere in there they let camaros and metrics because when challegers first started they were 112" wheel base at flamboro...then the fiberglass bodies and that pretty well killed most of them...and the few that stayed became latemodels...and all the while we were running to win for pretty well the same money the whole time...sauble and varney drivers are lucky they have street stocks because they can still move up from minis or start there and it still isnt an arm and a leg espically when your paying a mortgage or an ex wife...and once they get experience and win the lottery then move to thunders.

great story! ;D here goes my 2cent on what would make for a full pit......KEEP LLM (rules in stone),  :-* say good bye to thunder :'( :'( :-*,NO more V-8 Street stocks :o,KEEP 4 bangers (rules in stone...(maybe weight penalty for multi valve cars).......of course you would have to enforce the current rules................START A NEW CLASS make it about teams building and racing there own car......(nascar was built this way) phone yer local scrapyard and ask them what the most popular Heep's are that are coming through the gate I am sure they will say Dodges with a V-6!oops..lol.. didn't mean to pick on you Fiat fans...I meant I am sure they will say a bunch of V-6 stuff.....the days of rules for an entry level class built around Dodge, Ford and the General are OVER who cares who manufactured it let em all run! keep them stock-stock-stock(see flammy 4 banger class) How long till there are 30 or more of these new junkers. then if you need a jumper class to get you from a STREET STOCKER (or4cyl)to a LLM then start another new class use the Street Stock rules and take off a  bunch of weight up to and Including the front fenders give them whatever tire the LLM are on at the time and that's it!!..........well OK fiberglass bodies and call them "Thunder Cars"