Crate engines are for guys that either don't want to get involved in the parts selection or nitty gritty of engines.

That's just an ignorant comment.  The vast, vast majority of crate engines are for guys with a lower budget that want to race and be competitive.  Plain and simple.

Before I go further, I will say now that I support the crate engine program 100%.  As I mentioned previously, for low budget teams, the crate motor is an absolute god-send.  Low budget DOES NOT mean low talent, and this program has shown that.

Having said that, any thought of "the death of the crate engine" doesn't excite me.  However, lets say these bolts do exist and are widespread.  OK, fine.  That doesn't spell the end by any means.  Since the beginning of time, cheating has existed.  Of course new ways to cheat will always pop up.  It's up to the tracks and tech officials to adapt.  Think steroids in sports.  They are always coming up with new drugs, and conversely, searching for new ways to test.  It's an endless battle so getting stressed about this recent "discovery" is a waste of energy.

Now, on to my real reason for posting...

I understand that some out there despise the crate motor.  To each his own.  But, to say that the crate engine is ruining the sport is just plain rediculous.  Anyone that says that, to me, comes across as bitter.  Bitter, that they can't win races by putting their foot to the floor and letting the horses do the work.  That's not talent.  In short track racing, the talented drivers are the ones who can get through the corner best, high and low.  The crate motor has shed light on that and for some, the light is unwelcome.

Blaming the crate motor for single file racing.  Not really fair.  Closer racing?  Yes.  Single file?  No.  Go back to pre-crate days.  Car 1 has a small fortune under the hood and 540hp.  Car 2 has $2,000 and creaks out 250hp under his.  Etc, etc, through the field.  Will there be passing? You're damn right there will.  Car 1 is going to fly by Car 2, even though the talent might be totally equal.  Once again, low budget DOES NOT mean low talent.

Introduce the crate motor.  Car 1 and Car 2 both have 300hp now.  Obviously the field is going to be much tighter together.  Will there be passing?  Once of of the guys figures out how to get through the corner better than the other, you're damn right there will be.  But no, there won't be any rocketing past the guy mid-straight.  SORRY.  It's going to happen in the corner.  Now, this argument assumes there are two grooves on the racetrack to do said passing.  We all know that isn't the case at many tracks but that is a whole different story and a completely separate issue.

Has the crate motor ruined short track racing?  No, quite the opposite in my opinion.  It's brought the field closer together, and allowed talent to win races rather than money invested in ponies.  More importantly, it's allowed drivers that have a bottom to their bank accounts the chance to enjoy racing and showcase their talents out on the track.

For the "tinkerers" out there who argue that half the fun is in getting into the "nitty-gritty" of the motor, looking for the extra power.  Well, you can dive just as deep into the "nitty-gritty" of handling.  Think of it as a new challenge.

i know a lot of people have been complaining about the single file racing & i personally think that the crate engines are not the cause. in other divisions such as street stock & open wheel some of the guys have learned how to make there cars work on the outside. at deleware for example the other three divisions have gotten a handle on it. we just need somebody in late model who wants to take a stab at trying to make the outside work. i find the problem in late model is the drivers just prefer the inside & its hard to teach an old dog a new trick. as far as cheating the engine up its not really worth it because what generally happens is get so excited you get the lead & you forget about that half straight away lead you got by the end of the race & you know what tech is going to do ha! so if you cheat don't always win you might not get caught.

I see allot of good points here by silverfox , Thunder6  ,SRAMA  ,Mike32 , hill3  ,TheVoice but heres the bottom line the bolts are out there I have seen them with my own eyes so besides what hill3 says where they stop watch everyone and  I guess dyno anyone that is 2 or 3 tenths too quick ? What do you do with them then ? are they just out for the night and that nights points ?

I think the penalty for tampering with a crate has to be a whole bunch more then running a set of hot heads with a built engine . If not I see a cottage industry of building Hot Crate engines for myself and others.

I am not so egocentric as to think I am the first person in Ontario that has come across these bolts and I have now been told about 3 places you can get them so I am sure they are at a race track near you .

they are here also,out of mopac in alta. you are right, anyone caught tampering with a crate should have the wrath of god come down on them. i could be wrong but i remember when the old asa went to crates they caught one person,50000 dollar fine or year suspension,also they lost the illegal crate. and yes if the car is a couple of tenths faster then tech it, if it passes the dyno and found legal the club pays for the dyno and hands the driver $200, not only do you catch a possible cheater,you have also served notice that this will not be tolerated,it comes back to the sanctioning bodies,tracks and clubs to be consistent and above board with the whole process.

I would like to respond to some comment made to my earlier post. RRR this is true, I am referring to the Thunder Car crate engine program at BSW. I did understand that most people were talking about crates in LLM/LM but I posted what I think anyways. And I know that the crate program available to our class at our track is kind of weak. If I had the option of buying a crate that would do what I wanted it to do for the price that it is I might think about it, but it doesn't so it is not an option for me. In reality I can have the engine I want for roughly the same price or a little more. If everyone had to use the same engine then I would use it of course. But until that is mandated and we have the current crate option I will keep my built engine. I don't think my comment about people using the crate who don't want to get involved with engine building was ignorant at all. It is partly true. However I will grant that perhaps I did miss the racer who uses the crate as a means of keeping engine budgets down. The reality being in the class that I race if you have certain resources available to you, (not talking cash either) you can build a better engine than the crate for about the same price. If the LLM/LM guys are getting crate engines with 400hp for $3500-4000 that is a great deal and if I raced LM that is absolutely the way I would go. And thank you for your recommendations on getting my car to handle, I am aware of the fact that a good handling car will beat a HP monster any day of the week. You will always have to turn left sometime. I look for advantages throughout my program, and try to cover all of the angles.