Good to see your joining the party Randy. I totally agree. Swapping engines is an interesting idea, I'm willing. Can I pick the one. I've heard of some crates visiting builders dyno's. I dont know first hand what the outcome was I can only assume they come out stronger or the guys wouldn't be doing it. As far as mine goes it was to a dyno right after we took delivery ( 3 years ago ) just to know were we stood. Valve springs over the last off season has been our freshening expense. So far we're happy with the way things are going with respect to performance. However in hind sight LM's probably should have had the smaller 350 HP crate, this would have created more unity accross Ontario with the LLM's. Cya Friday
I guess that would be the only part that wouldn't be exactly fair in swapping engines - some poor bugger has a 6 race old engine and gets your 3 year old "beater" in exchange - but I'm sure there would be a way to pro-rate the cost somehow.
I don't necessarily agree with having the same engine as the LLM - I think the #604 is much better suited for a LM and it is much more popular in this class throughout north america.
That's pretty cool that you can get three years out of it and only change springs - however - I have seen some guys that have had to buy a replacement because something failed internally and they were told that the dealership would not be able to have it repaired in time for the following week.
I would expect most teams to take their engine to a dyno and optimize the carb and timing and possibly try a few things to gain everything they can - legally.
No - you are not allowed to choose which one you get - unless I can interest you in a Ford built motor .................. forget it, it wouldn't fit anyways and that damn distributor is still at the wrong end.........
Save us a spot beside you friday.
We can have beers and sort this whole mess out in 1 night.
See you then.
Randy
Pinecrest is saying the bolts are readily available - this is the original post.
I think his point is: How are the tracks keeping an eye on this and what are they doing to keep it under control? answer.......a little bit - but not nearly enough and they had better get off their keyster's before it gets out of control.
If you think you can get away with changing rocker arm ratio's, pushrod lengths, compression ratio or anything else that is very simple to check - you had better check the "best before date" on your prescription because you will not get away with it for long.Randy Shaw
#82 Late Model
RANDY its not just me saying the bolts are readily available ,its a fact . I gave the source where the the ones I saw came from and a link to some chic that was selling them in Michigan and hill3 says he knows where you can buy them out west. I have not confirmed the other two places that I was told you can get them but if you want I will .
The people I know that have them are not rocket scientists but they know what they can get away with . All they want to do is put a multi angle valve job on the head and maybe work the spring pockets . They would like to replace the cam or regrind it with less overlap so the engine dose not fall on it face at rpm but they know they have to keep the same lift and about the same duration , just change the base circle .
Your a smart guy so forget about improving the cam just the valve job ,thats maybe 15 to 25 hp wouldn't you think ?
Maybe I am just skeptical but now when I see a crate I wonder if its been massaged.
RANDY its not just me saying the bolts are readily available ,its a fact . I gave the source where the the ones I saw came from and a link to some chic that was selling them in Michigan and hill3 says he knows where you can buy them out west. I have not confirmed the other two places that I was told you can get them but if you want I will .
The people I know that have them are not rocket scientists but they know what they can get away with . All they want to do is put a multi angle valve job on the head and maybe work the spring pockets . They would like to replace the cam or regrind it with less overlap so the engine dose not fall on it face at rpm but they know they have to keep the same lift and about the same duration , just change the base circle .
Your a smart guy so forget about improving the cam just the valve job ,thats maybe 15 to 25 hp wouldn't you think ?
Maybe I am just skeptical but now when I see a crate I wonder if its been massaged.
I was simply pointing out the original question that you asked.
It doesn't matter from where they are available - just pointing out that you indicated that you physically held them in your hand and that it is not just speculation that they are available.
Changing the base circle of the lobe will make the pushrod length/rocker arm geometry even worse - you would be better to grind a new shaft and keep the base circle as large as possible - tell me how a tech guy is going to be able to degree a camshaft at the track? How can they possibly find true TDC without pulling the head?
Sorry, but I think the valve job on those heads from the factory are not that bad and I would expect maybe a 10hp increase at the very most.
Working the spring pockets is another no-no because they are checking seat pressure also.
Again, you never know if it's as produced or not and until somebody puts a program in place to deter anybody from playing around, you and everybody else can speculate all you want.
I was simply pointing out the original question that you asked.
It doesn't matter from where they are available - just pointing out that you indicated that you physically held them in your hand and that it is not just speculation that they are available.
Changing the base circle of the lobe will make the pushrod length/rocker arm geometry even worse - you would be better to grind a new shaft and keep the base circle as large as possible - tell me how a tech guy is going to be able to degree a camshaft at the track? How can they possibly find true TDC without pulling the head?
Sorry, but I think the valve job on those heads from the factory are not that bad and I would expect maybe a 10hp increase at the very most.
Working the spring pockets is another no-no because they are checking seat pressure also.
Again, you never know if it's as produced or not and until somebody puts a program in place to deter anybody from playing around, you and everybody else can speculate all you want.
Randy on a couple of points you are correct.
1 - Changing the base circle of the lobe will make the pushrod length/rocker arm geometry even worse - you would be better to grind a new shaft and keep the base circle as large as possible. Very true, Changing the lobe centerlines (108/110 Lobe separation) would help the top end but would be cheating which I don't condone.
2 - How can they possibly find true TDC without pulling the head? Easy, you put the degree wheel and pointer on the crank, you use a dummy spark plug that hits the piston, rotate the engine until it contacts the piston, measure that angle on the wheel, rotate the engine (carefully) in the opposite direction until the dummy plug hits the piston, take the total number of degrees and find the middle, thats TDC.
3 - Sorry, but I think the valve job on those heads from the factory are not that bad and I would expect maybe a 10hp increase at the very most.
Working the spring pockets is another no-no because they are checking seat pressure also. We’ve noted on the dyno that doing the valve job properly gives you between 5 and 10 hp gain.
Greasemonkey.
bolts or not lets be honest here all the crate does(tech wise) is make it harder to cheat and i feel easier to catch with a tech crew that has some mechanical talent,but the tracks and clubs must have the gonads to let the tech people do the job not come back with the line if we tech to hard the cars will not come,never releasing if you tech hard the clean racer will stay or come back. it has been my experience that those who bi*** the most about tech are those who are cheating the most.