there's no reason not to be civil even if someone is being disingenuous....it all becomes clear if you just sit back and count to 3

I agree that there is never enough safety, in any class. But Enduro gets any more costly, you can just call it The Other Super Stocks, because that will be all that's left in it  ;D

Not sure if I was edited or not so I'll try again.

Hasn't been serious injuries is a past tense not the future.
Similar to people not wearing protective clothing while riding a motorcycle and saying "I don't plan on having an accident". I know a bunch of those people that now say that motorcycling is dangerous cause they were injured in a accident of their own cause.

As for the initial input I started with this post, I don't car if the Supers run 19sec flat or the Enduro run 20sec flat. Racing is all about making your car fast. From what I understand the fastest car usually wins.

So a racer will spend $500 - 600 on a 16volt system cause another drive had one (eg. #11 SS) and it appeared to make him faster, or $1000 - $2000 on a rear floater and disc brakes cause the #2 SS had rear disk breaks and had a few wins so obviously it made him faster.

A Racer will spend money on every upgrade allowed by a track if it makes him faster, that's why the track tries not to change the rules too much as they know the racers will change everything they can at any cost.

But, I go and mention that the track may want to look at safety and tell teams that in the next year or 2 be prepared to run full containment seats and a Hans, and the Racer freak.

What did Earnhart say about the HANS, something along the line that he knew what makes his car safe and that horse collar will just break your neck and kill you. Look it up you can find his exact quote. Wonder if he wishes he could have had one in Feb. 2001. The same injury that killed him can happen at 40mph, it just takes the wrong angle and the wrong circumstances.

So on a lighter note, you can buy a Head and Neck device new for $550US that's close to the same in CDN $. Used ones also will work. As a driver with a full containment seat what he thinks about the seat and he'll tell you it's more comfortable and you move around less and can drive better.

Finally I hear the track is allowing the SS to run Nitro Methane Big Blocks in the SS and it'll only add 50# to the weight, but you need to use a seat from a 73 Pinto, you need to wear a pudding bowl on your head, lap belt only and the center of the steering wheel needs to have a spike pointed at your chest. The thought is the off set in the safety devices will balance out the cost of the engine. I also hear that 1/2 the SS teams are in the process of converting over cause it'll make their car faster. 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉

Bigblocks.  He's got you there.

Anyway... I think the point people are making here is obvious Dan--spending money to go faster (within the rules, of course) is optional.

Yes, three or four of the well-sponsored, well-funded SS teams will go full floater 9" with discs and 16 volt systems and all sorts of other expensive stuff to get that last tenth out of the lap time.

But then there's gonna be someone like me, first season, not a lot of financial backing, happy to just have the car done and on the track--probably a reasonably competitive car, not winning anything but not being lapped often either (at least I hope not  ::) ) ... But was too busy putting their money into things the car NEEDS, while saving money by sticking with, say, the stock 10 bolt rear, or a stock HEI distributor instead of a DUI, etc etc...

And the same goes for safety.  I'm all for every safety gismo you can have--but to be FORCED to run one?  I think that'd be a shame, and I agree that it would gradually ruin the class and force the guys on a budget to leave and race somewhere else.  I'm lucky enough that one of my sponsors said "hey, we need to get you a HANS" so I'm gonna have one for next season... But had he NOT offered it, it sure as hell wasn't on my "to-do" list--getting the car running and maybe having an extra set of tires was.

I also see a lot of racers taking a "we'll get that later" approach... ie. build the car, race it for all or most of a season, with "next year's goal" being to buy a HANS or a containment seat.

Forcing safety devices would be as suicidal (for the class I mean) as forcing a particular performance device, ie. "All Super Stock cars MUST run full aftermarket 9" Ford Rear Ends" ... One is performance, one is safety, but if you can't afford either, you can't afford either.

Having said that, safety stuff that DOESN'T cost less is a no-brainer in my mind.  Economical helmets like Racequip's or G-Force's entry-level helmets are about $40 more than an open-face helmet.  5-point harnesses don't cost more than 4-point harnesses.  And the door plates, too.

I don't think any of us are stupid enough to believe a HANS is "more dangerous" or that an open helmet is somehow "safer" than a closed one (at least I hope not)... I'll never make FUN of a fellow racer for having $10,000 worth of safety equipment in his car.  But I don't feel I should be FORCED to pay for all of it either.

how can the ss still be named that if you put floater brakes in chopping the roof inches, and the camaros  etc... in my eyes the should start calling them  late models with an old(er) body on it