I missed that one in the rule book.

Also if you look at rule for the lucky dog it states if a driver is a lap down because of a penalty he is not eligible for the lucky dog .

We are nascar sanctuned it is in the nascar rule book or look up "Lucky Dog" rule it is there.

Well, look at it this way: I've seen the black flag get used a few times over the course of the season in most divisions....except I think the Mods, who rarely need it. The black flag is flown most of the time for deliberate actions ("anti-social behavior" as Crazylady put it so eloquently) Urlin's seen it, Matthews has seen it. Its not like its not getting used.

If I were to try and pinpoint what the main issue is, its that intent seems to matter, and I don't know if it should. They're not shy to thow it when its deliberate. But a lot of the problems seem to arise from agressive blocking, or an unwillingness to hold a line in traffic. Its a foggy line, and I don't envy the officials trying to find it. Its something that has to come from the drivers.

I sat and had a good chat with Jeff Wilcox a couple weeks ago and talked about it. (this was just after the Partsource race) He pulled out his little race cars that he keeps in the desk for such demonstration purposes and he showed me where some of the problems are coming up. And it really comes down to 2 things: 1.Guys won't hold a line coming in and out - they need to get cooler with their spotters to know the difference between "looking low/high" and "going low/high"

The second thing is just wisdom, but its something that with some guys isn't getting used a whole lot. Jeff emphasized to me what he called the "Mark Martin rule" If a guy is 20 lengths behind you one lap, and he's right on your bumper the next lap, he's obviously faster, so blocking him is pointless. Let him go. And some guys aren't getting that.

Look at a gentleman runner like Gary Elliott - Here's a guy who knows he can win races, but  probably not this year (not here) - he's still working on getting his car up with the top guys. He knows it'll come, just not right away, so why bother causing unnecessary bent metal? He's keeping it to the grindstone and focusing on getting faster instead of getting all stupid and protecting his position at all costs. After 41 years racing, he gets it.  Some guys don't.

The problem lies in what's enforceable and what isn't. Are you allowed to protect your position? Sure. Should you protect your position? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. So you can't always depend on the flag-guy. There's no penalty for simply being dumb.

So some of it has to come from the drivers. And part of the problem there is that the guys who know better aren't piping up until after they get wrecked and the fist shaking and finger pointing starts.

I stand by my initial thought that the black flag for rough driving should get you off the track and scored in last place, and non of this "going to the back" stuff. It accomplishes nothing. On the other hand, when to throw the black is another issue entirely, and one that there are no easy answers to.

I fully agree with you Shadowracer. I guess most of the change needs to come from inside the race car. But I think the only point I can make is, if the drivers wont smarten up, somebody needs to do it for them.

Well said Shadow.  One of the things I learned when we were racing the junior cars is that when our drivers are on the track, we are focused on our driver and the cars directly around them and not really on anyone else.  The officials have the responsibility of looking at the whole track and paying attention to everything that is going on in a race.  It is possible that the officials may not be looking at the place on the track where you or your driver are involved in an incident.  They cannot call something that they did not see.  What did happen in the juniors when patterns developed with certain drviers, the race director would have a discussion with the driver and then they would be watched more closely by the officials in future races.  I believe this is also happening with the Friday night divisions, but am not 100% certain of this.  

Like any other sport, the officials are human and cannot possible see everything.  This is why play reviews have come into play in so many professional sports to help remove the "human" factor.  However, this would not be appropriate for local track racing just as it is not appropriate for other non-professional sports.