We are FORD ppl. My dad has always bought FORD, but I find it becoming increasingly difficult to find others....the UAW have killed the big 3...thats why honda and such have faired well...thye pay well but overall pay less...they keep their workers happy, i.e. ball diamonds, hockey rinks things like that to keep away the big bad unions...imo this is where all the trbl starts...

GM even opened up new plants in Chicago to make parts for the line and gave contracts to build cars as well, but once the union found out this was GM owned they were mad...

I don't agree Thayne. I work for a Local, and the protection and advantages for working in a union shop are very important. Fair Collective bargaining is very important in protecting the rights of workers. Contracting out (as you mentioned with GM is a huge no-no, as it should be).

I agree the overseas manufacturers have made a lot of effort keeping the unions out. The day they don't offer a very comparable package to the unionized workers there will be a union at the door. I don't believe it costs less for the overseas manufacturers to assemble their products here compared to the N/A manufacturers.

The N/A manufacturers need to come up with more products that appeal to consumers and will SELL!

I think Tex that because u are a part of a union u may have a bit of a bias....from what I have seen Unions are killing many things...look at school...schools are closing because of the lack of funding due to increasing teacher salaries...thats just 1 example...not saying u guys dont deserve what u get but without the union u wldnt get what u do and they business wld make more money.

Thayne, I mentioned "Collective Bargaining", which means when contract renewal time comes around representitives of the employees AND corporation sit down to discuss what each of them want and what they are willing to give to get what they want.

If the corporation cannot afford it they will shut the plant and move it to Mexico or China.

You mentioned schools... it actually has to do with Federal and Provincial downloading and severe mismanagement... and a little bit of hiding money and saying we're poor over many years finally adding up. Government Unions (like the teacher's) are a totally different beast than corporate private industry unions.

At the same time Contracting Out (like Chicago, as you mentioned) means that someone gets a GM job at a lesser rate. How is that fair to GM workers or to the person doing a $25 job for $12.50? It isn't. If you want to pay everyone $8.75 what kind of product are you going to be turning out? Believe me those corporations are going to be making sure they get their $25 worth of skilled labor. It is the job of the corporation to ensure they have a saleable product, which in the case of the big 3 right now, they seem to be struggling with.

Take for instance the business you are familiar with. If the government madated tomorrow that mechanics could not charge more than $30 per hour would that be fair? Would it be fair to import mechanics without proper skills or training to work for $10 an hour?

I thank my lucky stars every day that I have an Association to protect me, my income and to look out for my best interests. I know you are thinking of the bottom line, but when you do there will be no manufacturing in this country because it will all be in China or Mexico where 10 year old kids work for $.25 an hour. You would be surprised how many union made products are produced very well in this country.

The BIG 3 KILLED themselves , you can post all you want about unions and the HIGH $ of LABOR , FORD moved the F150 to MEXICO , lower costs to produce , but no cut in the $ of the trucks , GM just moved a plant from NJ to MEXICO that made the COBALTS and G5's cheaper labor but gee the $ went up on the vehicles.

Use to be BUILT FORD TOUGH now its BUILT MEXICAN CHEAP.

As for union protection of jobs , get real look at all the UNIONIZED jobs that have vanished in Ontario , JOHN DEERE , STERLING , NAVISTAR , CAT, Highland Transport threatened to fire all their Owner Operators and shut the doorsunless the USW UNION talked them into taking $ cuts , a sister company of theirs closed up in Quebec for the same thing.