blue, knowbody in the stands is going to notice a 7 tenths of a second increase in lap times.  Its not about speed,  because if it was, nobody in the stands would be falling asleep during the 6 car late model race for 35 laps.

I went to Sauble to watch Sterling Marlin race that night in the summer, and I seen the STREET STOCKS, Dan Wrights 2001 AUTUMN COLORS winning car was in it!  Those guys were wheeling those cars, a true drivers class.  The car that won was so impressive, after the race I was shocked to see this 15 year old kid get out of the car!  Talent, not money!

Anyone with a wallet full can win in a perfect COT superstock.

The best guy and days gone buy was Gordie Sheppherd in 2003-2005, that car looked like nothing, I went to his house, he let me under the car, the garage you could barely move in its so small.  But he was the BEST!  I had more motor then him, but could never beat him, talent and setup smarts, not money.

I thought Ray was full of shit, ``re-bushing the car every year`` he said.  He was telling me the truth.  So in 2008 I put in the new trailing arms in the rear with the urethayne bushings, first time new sine 2001 for that car.  What Happened? 2nd place and 600 dollors at Sunset for the 1,000 to win spectacual. 

Lets all go to indoor kartways in Brampton and find out who the good drivers REALLY are, you might be suprised who does well and who does not!

Actually, that sounds like fun!  Whos up for a Sunset and Barrie drivers GoKart day? Yaaaaaaaa.  Quick, someone call Robin Jongen!!  8)

Thayne, i dont know if any more or less cars would show. because even if these "rules" proposed here were to go in, everyone would have to spend some money. But at least you would get 10 cars per class?
Flyby8, i couldnt be a tech guy, because i would be labled biased, and because by the time i was done in tech, 15th place would be getting the feature trophy. lol

so lets just shoot some "rules" around for giggles

Street stock/hobby stock/real thunder car: Base weight ???????? 3200? 2900? the base weight has to be pretty low to account for trick thunders coming down and being hit with weight, so actual stock chassis would get a killer weight break. MAYBE go with a cubic inch weight break? like a 302 (lots of 4 cyl mustangs already caged just waiting for a v8) or 305 could weigh 2800lbs? 6 cyl 2600 (93-97 camaro 4.3, 95-99 mustang 3.8, theres lots of them out there) And figure out a way to work in those deleware/pete street stock trucks out there. Like a weight break. even if there is 4 that would be willing to run it would be worth it.
52 left% 47 rear%
410 lift cam
cast iron intake ??lbs for performer rpm
rochestor carb, ?? lbs for holley
stock rear end, ?? lbs for 9 inch (for larger rear brakes and moved suspension mounts, weight mounted in the RF area)
possible gear rule (to avoid 9 inch guys running straight up) 410?
3 speed auto, ??lbs for powerglide
Stock engine mounts, no setback.
no aftermarket pulleys/power steering systems?
must have (at least) partial stock firewall, stock position brake master with different sized reservoirs, 1/4 inch brake line to rear with no adjuster
Stock + or- 1 degree rear pinion angle
Stock type sway bar links, max sway bar dia 3/4
Pro spec shocks ONLY
No wedge bolts, old thunders must weld them 1 night in (no time to tune)
same length front uppers, spec part or stock.
stock front end, PERIOD. no chevelle/trans am idler arms, no redrilling of idler mounts, no shortened or lengthened lowers, fullsize spindles ok, to avoid bump steer mods steering arms must be within 1/2 inch side to side measured from ground (to account for caster split) centerlink and inner tie rod mounts must be level with opposite ends
stock ball joints
BFG or comparable tire, that would knock around a second off the times, maybe more. Plus no more flats (pretty much) and they last forever. No shaving or doping
This tire is around the same size as the old recaps. You would have to mount a few up and figure a stagger tire size to use. 2 inches would probably be around right with a locked rearend
see: http://www.bfgoodrichtires.ca/tire-selector/size/pmetric/225/70/15/S/radial-t-a/tire-details
As an added bonus, these tires i doubt would ever go out out of production being that they are the #1 selling "muscle car, high performance" tire out there
Plus, example, action tire could be the class sponser with BFG as a backer. The white walls have to be pointed outwards though.

outlaw thunder/challenger rules to come.....

when challengers first started at flamboro and i believe they were the first track to have them they were 112 inch wheelbase, 2 barrel rochester, 3 speed autos, no glides, completely stock suspension links, just cutting or interchanging springs, stock type street shocks, street tires, i used Canadian Tire A/W's and even returned 3 under warranty...i would suggest no stangs, camaros or f/birds....

OK, "outlaw thunder/challenger rules"
IF the track is interested in car counts, this is how to get them
Most important points are: Must look different than the late models to the fans, any pre 95 body?, must be slower than the late models and most importantly lots of cars wanted.
So these "rules" i put forth might be confusing at first, so read them well before posting back about a shock gripe or something

Some history on challengers. They evolved from street stocks back in the day when a current super late was a late model.
The first were built off full size chevelles, malibus, torinos etc. The camaro clip was used, with leafs.
evolved again when any rear suspension was allowed and added three links with panhard bars, making most full length frames (save for shotaunus, lawler and fletcher) obsolete. made the jump to current LLM when unserslung hanley cars showed up, and when ward started putting the tube clips on.

So the cuttoff would be any stock clip, overslung rear car allowed.
The current thunders that move up at barrie and over from sunset would have to be considered, because they would make up 50% of the field.
SO basic rules first, then considerations for thunders moving up

lets say 3150 lbs base, running on the thunder recaps

55 left, 48 rear %
6.5 or 7 inch ride height (most cars built before 1995 were in this range)
Front and rear wedge bolts
unlimited hydraulic cam
spec Pro heim end shocks
floaters, discs, double masters
steel calipers with equal sized pistons on all 4, no slotted/wave/.810 rotors, no spacers between pad and piston
3 link with heims at both ends, no rubber biscuits (center rear mount rubber ok), 30 inch max length, if slotted/adjustable mounts, must have washer welded by 2nd night
no lockers
rams horn manifolds/spec downswept header 2 1/4 exhaust 10 inches of 2 1/2 primary as a reducer, no merge, no X's
No splined/keyed sway bars
panhard bracket, both ends must have separate adjusment holes, no slots no clamp on adjusters
all steel tin kit
upper a arms must be within 1 inch of length side to side

Thunder/optional rules (in addition to above rules)
3100 base weight
for factory style 4 link
Rebuildible stock mount shocks may be used and repositioned to work with front wedge bolts
stock Style 4 link will have the use of stock mount rebuildible shocks mounted in any position
automatic 50 lbs weight break
Drums 50 lb weight break

This is where everything gets real sticky. You have to make it worth it for thunder guys to step up to this class and not get their doors blown off. maybe put thunders on slicks? wild idea, i know, but its going to be hard to beat a three link car no matter the weight break, they get through the ends so much better with the panhard.
If they end up doing something with this class (not likely) there will be alot of trial and error getting everyone evened out.