Well I agree with you Thayne!!! The extra laps isnt really a big deal at all, but I just question the format involved for these shorter features and the chaos its gonna create. As I say we dont know all details yet so I'm not getting to carried away with this either way. Its just I had really high hopes for the LLM field this year at BSW and this latest move brings how good the car count and quality of field could of been into question in my opinion. I am in agreement a marginal purse increase might of been the way to go with this to attract new drivers, and that could still happen but I'm not holding out much hope either. I just get fustrated by all the hyping and promotional work I do for the track (alot of which is of my own time and valition) and goes unseen by owners, then decisions like this seem to wipe that hard work out and its really fustrating to me. Maybe I was a bit harsh saying I wouldnt attend races at BSW as we all know thats not likely to happen after all it is my home track but hope you get the gist of where I'm coming from here a little. DAISY I agree with you that since I went back to BSW in 2004 the Thunders have provided great racing and excellent competition and have BEEN the show most nights.. What I said was I personally go to see Late Models race, and without a good competitive field of those cars I wouldnt be there or any other track for that matter(save for dirt) I know there are many that feel the same way I do about this, so please dont question my racetrack knowledge as it related to what sells and what doesnt!!! And one other thing while were on this DAISY you couldnt be more wrong about "not until Sunset invited the Barrie cars down did owners care about the Thunder Cars???" If memory serves I believe we had the Thunder Car Nationals scheduled right from the get go. Now sure the Thunders were cancelled twice last year due to NCATS and OSS but the NCATS deal there hands were tied really with bad weather looming and the side pit flooded. What else were they supposed to do cancel NCATS??? Thats laughable you even think that, and for the record I'm not a fan of the NCATS what so ever. Now when the NCATS were slated to appear( which traditionally draws the biggest crowds of the year) the Thunders were at least on the sched while the LLM werent. Would this of happened if the owners didnt care about the Thunders?? Didnt agree with the cancelling the 2nd time for OSS but what were they supposed to do cancel the LLM when it wasnt looking like they would of gotten enough races in to even qualify for Whelen All American series??? That would of caused a small riot with those drivers so really it was a no win both times its just unfortunate that the Thunders paid the price for circumstances beyond their control both times!!!!

I get what ur saying Davey, but for me....I think you may get a field of stout cars looking for that 25,000 dollar payday in Vegas! The way i see it is this....in the end they get the same money for a few more laps...most guys arent fans of heat races anyways (i wld do two features if i cld) the only issue is that the features always see the bang ups...and I would guarantee that there will be mvre torn up pieces this way...I think the patient one will be the one who wins this thing...but i still say we see the 17-20 cars...being the NASCAR Whelen Champion is nothing to sneeze at...

The only issue with this is that without the full fields (23 cars), our boys still wont win cause they wont get maximum points!

At the drivers meeting Jim Payetta was leaning toward having a 25 lap feature earlier in the night & then a 35 lap feature to end the night. He was also talking about having 1 set of heats for the LLM as well. I have no problem with the 2 features, what concerns me is how they are going to set the field. Jim had said he wanted the first feature to be fast cars to the front to help out with there Whelen points, then invert the field for the last feature. But I find the fast cars at the front races boring & I think many fans feel the same way. As for the Charger & A division combining, we all know it had to happen, there was just not enough cars in the A class. Jim said at the meeting that he wanted to bring back the Chargers the year after & change the A class to an outlaw type. The races finishing at 10 is far fetched but they do have to try to get it a bit of a shorter night. Trying to be done for just before 11 every night is more reasonable, some of our nights last year were marathons & understand why people were leaving before the night was over.    

Ok well I was going to start into a 4cyl preview for this week but something has appeared on the Barrie website of late that just has me completely baffled!! I'm a bit suprised there hasnt been any discussion about this on here, but apparently BSW will be running double features for the LLM division this year with no purse increase but rather the $$ from the 2008 features split in half for each of these double features. I have some major questions on how this is going to work in 2009 and just who it will benefit, so I will try and break it down as I see it. Now I understand why this was done (to give a BSW car a better shot at the 25 000 dollar Nascar Whelen top prize) but that being said I really think this idea could be destined to fail miserably, and drivers, fans, and owners could really suffer for what I see as a very poor decision in the end. Now I dont pretend to know all this details on this, so if you were at the LLM drivers meeting and can shed some light on this PLEASE DO!!LOL

Questions I have::: How many laps will each feature consist of??? I'm hearing they will possibly be 20-25 laps each, and if true that doesnt add up to much on track action as we all know passing at Barrie is at a premimum due to the tightness of the track. This could really turn fans away if they see no passing, and for the drivers basically in 20 or 25 laps you wont have a chance at a win unless you start in the first couple rows.

Will the formula to determine the starting grid be changed??? The dreaded handicapping system!!!!LOL If it remains unchanged from last year it will be really tough for the cars starting at the rear to even enter the top 5 let alone get a win. If its true these new features are in the 20-25 lap duration I would like to see the fast cars to the front so you at least have some good battles to watch!! Now this is really unfair for the mid pack to back markers as they will basically have no chance to win or place well because of it and could leave the track for greener pastures and a shot at a bit of glory. This again is not good for fans or owners at BSW. Now that being said, some of the cars in the top 6 or 7 at the track MIGHT benefit as if there lucky enough to hold on for a feature win or two and it would increase there nightly winnings from what they were accustomed to in 2008. But I'm really not even sure that will happen either??

Does this mean the end of heat races for the division??? I cant really see how drivers can be expected to run two 12 lap heat races plus two 20-25 lap features in one night. I would expect it will be nightly time trials, which are good to view on occasion but WILL turn out to be very boring for the fans night after night as compared to the excitement heat races can create. And again for the drivers some guys might only get a shot at a checkered and a bit of glory in a heat race, so by time trialing nightly this moment in the sun will be taken away from them. Now with time trials I think you will see the same 3 or 4 cars qualifying at the top of the field each night so maybe they have some type of inversion planned with the top qualifier picking 'the pill" to see how many cars they might invert. This seems to me the only logical way to hold feature races under this format which might make my previous question about the handicapping system a moot point.

What about the carnage factor???? What happens if a guy wrecks in the first feature and cant make it out for the 2nd one??? Now sure if that car is in contention he can possible borrow a ride as McLeod did on a couple of occasions last season. This would again decrease the car count somewhat for certain features, perhaps another reason the fans might get turned off.

As you can see theres lots of unanswered questions as I have just scratched the surface here. I'm personally wondering if the drivers even had a say in this??? So again if you were at the meeting could you let us know if this was even discussed or was it put into place on a whim by the new owners??? It does explain why the CHARGER division was done away with though, and it wasnt really anything to do with length of the show at all, it was done to get this added LLM feature in, which is a real shame for some of the newer drivers in what was formerly the "starter division". Now the car count in 2008 for the Pure Stock A division I'm sure played a factor too and I agreed with their decision to emalgimate the classes until this latest decision concerning the LLM's came down.... No offence to the Thunder or 4 cyl drivers but I personally go to the races to watch Late Models as I think alot of race fans do, and all I can see coming out of this latest move is a vastly depleted LLM field which is a shame in what could of really been a make or break year for this division with a certain level of discontent amongst the LLM drivers at that track to the south. I really believe a few of there guys were set to run BSW in 09, and now cause of this move I really am questioning if that will happen now....... Me thinks I might just do a whole lot of fishing and golfing this year and forget racing altogether and I'm a BSW die hard so what does that tell ya????LOL Although theres always Kawartha, Sauble, and Oshweken that I like to attend as well so the race year might not be a total loss but I'm really failing to see how this latest move benefits anyone connected to BSW!!! There you have it................. FROM THE CHEAP SEATS

I have no idea why the NEW PROMOTORS of Barrie Speedway are trying to screw up the besr racing in Ontario !
Barrie has always had the best racing in all classes par none since I can remember  "so why play with it, if it not broken don't try to fix it".
As far as this Nascar Whellan goes, we got by without it for many, many yrs. and had great racing, lets try to get back to that again .
I am a very concerened race fan and former LLM & Super Late Model Crew Chief of what ONTARIO TRACK PROMOTORS ARE DOING TO CAR RACING !
We need to get racing back to "grass roots Saturday night racing"  >:(

Thanks for the responce RRR CREW!!!! Nice to hear from someone that was actually at the meeting to get a clearer take on this. If that goes down the way you described that actually brings me some hope to me on what might happen within the LLM division this year at BSW!!! I really think ideally to run the twin feature format that 30 laps would be about right at Barrie but I would settle for 25. What I had really heard was 20, and that to me is far too short. I kinda like the idea of fast cars at the front at Barrie myself, and always look forward to the first race of the year for that very reason. You tend to get the top 6-10 cars starting up front depending on the inversion, and that has created some of the best racing in years past in that season opening event. Does anyone remember the 2005 season opener under that format with Tyler Hawn, Gaunt, and Tim Watson battling at the front and exchanging the lead lap after lap amongst themselves?? That was probaly the best LLM race I have seen at Barrie in the last 5 years I have been back there, save for the Jongen/Lewis one at this years season ender. I also like the idea of one heat race per night as opposed to time trialing provided all the front half the field (according to point standings) go into one heat and the mid pack to back markers get a heat of their own as well. For features I would like to see an opening night time trial, with top qualifier picking a number beween 1-10 or 12 for an inversion, and then running the 2nd with a total field inversion  as they finished in the first. Week two and all the following weeks you have the point leader at that time again pick the # between 1-10 or 12 and invert that many cars for the first feature(based on current point standings), and then again invert the total field for the 2nd one depending on order of finish in the 1st 25. I think this format gives you a nice mixture, in that in the first race the top guns battle it out at the front and then in the 2nd you get to watch those same front runners try to work their way to the front in just 25 short laps. McLeod, Gordie, Baker and others put on some great drives to the front from the tail of the field this year, and I sure dont want to lose that aspect as it  was great to watch also. I kind of agree with Thayne as well that the double feature format might produce some cleaner racing as guys wont want to tear their stuff up in the first one each night. Last year the first 6 weeks or so were very rough ones for the LLM division with many wrecks, but as I said before from June 14th on when "The Gambler" won in a caution free affair the racing was pretty good for the remainder of the year with the cautions and wrecks few and far between. The problem might lie in getting ALL of the drivers to maintain that sort of mantality throughout the entire year. I know a few of the drivers in LLM visit this site like Keith, Dwayne, and Big Dog to name a few and it sure would be nice to hear from one of them to see just how they feel about this double feature format and just what the pros and cons are from their perspective and how they personally would like the field to be set.